NICOLA Sturgeon came under pressure to publish in the full the government’s “urgent lessons learned review” into how a double rapist was kept in a women’s prison.
The First Minister declined to commit to releasing the paper in full but insisted the findings would be made public. She promised there would be “full transparency about the findings of that review as is right and proper.”
Last month, justice secretary Keith Brown announced that violent trans inmates will be barred from female jails in Scotland until the conclusion of a review into all transgender prisoners.
The move followed concern over Isla Bryson, who first appeared in court facing rape charges as Adam Graham.
Another trans inmate, Tiffany Scott — who as Andrew Burns stalked a 13-year-old girl — had also reportedly applied to transfer to a female prison.
The review was due to be completed by the Scottish Prison Service last Friday. The First Minister confirmed on Thursday that Mr Brown has now received the report.
READ MORE: Isla Bryson: 'Transgender rapist should not have been in womens jail'
The exchange in parliament came as demonstrators gathered outside calling for prisons to be single-sex.
Protesters held signs reading “no males in women’s jails” and “if you have a willy you stay in Barlinnie.”
The rally was attended by a number MSPs including a handful of Ms Sturgeon’s backbenchers, including former minster Ash Regan, John Mason, Kenny Gibson, and Michelle Thomson, who addressed the crowd.
In the chamber, Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross said there were still “so many unanswered questions.”
He told MSPs: “At the last count, the First Minister had refused 12 times to see if Isla Bryson is a man or a woman. And it's important because that affects how public bodies treat these criminals when they're released from jail.
“The First Minister says she doesn't have enough information to decide if this double rapist is a man. He's a rapist. He has a penis. What further information can the First Minister possibly need?”
The Tory leader asked if Bryson would be considered a man or a woman when released from jail.
READ MORE: More confusion as Sturgeon refers to double-rapist as 'she' and 'her'
Replying, Ms Sturgeon said “The individual we're talking about here identifies as a woman. However, it's really important, I think, to very calmly set out that any rights associated with that are not a result of any legislation passed by this parliament.
“And indeed, wouldn't be the result of that legislation, even if it were enforced."
The First Minister claimed it was because of the UK-wide Equality Act 2010 which has "always has effectively been based on self-identification."
“However, what it doesn't do is give any individual an automatic right to be treated in a certain way in the present state.
“And actually, this case demonstrates that, because the individual is in a male prison.
“What is relevant here and why I have focused on this is the crime and the nature of the risk posed. In this case, the individual is a double rapist and in terms of decisions about how they are dealt with in the prison estate, that is the relevant factor.”
READ MORE: Keith Brown not aware trans rapist being held in female jail
The First Minister said that “in any group, individuals, a small minority of individuals will commit crimes. In no other circumstances do we accept the stigmatisation and the denial of rates to the whole group and we shouldn't do that here either.”
Mr Ross pointed out that the First Minister had not answered his question.
“Her government is going to consider this double rapist a woman. Nicola Sturgeon has brought in a policy that states everybody who claims to be a woman must be considered a woman, even if they're a dishonest sex offender with a history of violence.”
He then asked if the SNP leader considered Scott to be a woman.
The First Minister said that any rights any individual identifying as a woman had, came from the protected characteristic provisions of the Equality Act.
“A gender recognition certificate simply enables somebody to change the birth certificate, it does not give trans people any additional rights. And that is important. And in terms of how individuals are treated within the prison service, as I have said, that is based on the nature of the crime and the nature of the risk posed.”
She said there were well-established procedures for when prisoners are released back into the community.
“I don't think Douglas Ross does any service to anybody in the way that he approaches this. I'm struck by something his predecessor as Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson has said, ‘trying to do gotcha questions about who is a woman who is a man, I'm not sure helps, particularly for people in the trans community, who are looking at the way this is reported’.
“So perhaps Douglas Ross could take some guidance from his predecessor on this matter.”
“This is not a gotcha question,” Mr Ross replied. “It's a very basic question. It's not just me, it's journalists who are asking this repeatedly to the First Minister, and I wouldn't stand up here asking these questions if at any point in the 13 previous attempts I'd ever got a straight answer from Nicola Sturgeon.
“So maybe don't focus on the question, focus on the deficiency of the answer.”
He then quoted a former prison guard who claimed staff had been threatened with disciplinary action if they didn't refer to Scott as her.
They said that Scott had "used gender recognition as a tool to create as much chaos as possible within the prison system".
And that this was "a classic example of devious dangerous individuals who are exploiting this ridiculous situation’"
“We also know that female prison officers have been ordered to carry out intimate strip searches of Tiffany Scott," Mr Ross said, claiming that their rights had "gone out of the window."
"So does the First Minister agree with me that this is completely unacceptable? And will she intervene today to stop women prison officers being forced to strip search the likes of Tiffany Scott?” he asked.
The First Minister said the Scottish Prison Service had been dealing with transgender prisoners, for “many, many years”
“They have been doing it safely and effectively. They are experienced in managing these situations. But of course, it's also the case that the SPS have the ability to use technology to search individuals without the need for any physical search to be conducted by officers.
“The SPS has a trauma-informed approach to the management of those in custody and an approach that supports staff as well as inmates in their care.
“So the SPS is experienced in these matters. I trust their handling of these matters and
Speaking outside at the protest, Michelle Thomson said the policy was "not okay."
“How could a policy be devised that took no cognizance of trauma in women prisoners? " she asked.
"People are saying, and correctly so, that the recent debate we had didn't result in the situation. Just about the GRR and that's correct, but it's much bigger than that. How as a society did we slip into the idea that this was okay?
"This is not okay. And if you had any understanding as a woman you would shout out this is not okay. It will never be okay.
“Women's privacy, dignity, safety must be at the forefront of how we form policy in this matter."
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