Keir Starmer says Labour will resist second independence vote

Sir Keir told BBC Scotland’s The Sunday Show:“Every party going into the election last time here in Scotland was saying loudly, and rightly in my view, that recovery from the pandemic needs to be the central issue. 

“Around people's tables tonight they will be talking about whether they can afford to make ends meet, that is the central most important issue, the economy.

"The next election will be fought on the economy and the choice will be carrying on with this utter chaos and damage under the Tory party or usher in a Labour government which will stabilize the economy and grow the economy.”

Sir Keir said he “fundamentally” rejected the argument that the “way you grow the economy is to put a border between Scotland and England.” 

He added: “I don't think that will help us grow the economy. I think it will make a bad situation worse. But we have to be clear that the priority going into that election has to be the economy, has to be the cost of living, has to be answering the question that people are asking around their kitchen table, which is can I make ends meet?”

Asked if believed the union was a “voluntary organisation” or if Scots were “stuck” Sir Keir said: “Well, of course, it is a voluntary organisation. I believe in the Union. I think that if I think of all the fantastic things that we've achieved as a United Kingdom, we've done them together as four nations. 

“If I look at the really big challenges that face us: climate change, conflicts such as Ukraine, dealing with the energy security, these are issues which seems to me obviously can only be solved by the four nations as one entity, but we need to make the argument for that.

“I do understand very many people in Scotland say we want change, fed up with the Tory government back in Westminster, my job is to sort that out by winning the next general election and actually then we have a Labour government to work with.”

Asked again if there was a democratic route to independence or if Scots were “stuck” in the union, Sir Keir replied: “Of course they're not stuck.”

“But this is about priorities. What is the priority at the moment? The priority at the moment is people paying their bills, is growing the economy.”

The Labour leader said the SNP’s time government had been 15 “years of failure”. 

“Look at what's happened with the health service. Look at all those people on the waiting list. Look at the fact that economic growth has been negligible. Look at those, what was it 120,000 green jobs that were promised, how many have been delivered? 20,000?”

He said the SNP and the Tories were “using independence as a mask to say well don't look here at our record, look over here at something else. But I say look at the record, the record is a record of failure. 

Sir Keir said Labour’s next manifesto would contain “a very powerful case for the Union and I will make that case to the country: a fairer greener Scotland, in a fairer greener Britain, working together to meet the challenges of our time.”

Asked if he would “accept the verdict” of the Supreme Court if it ruled that the Scottish Government could hold a referendum on independence without the permission of the UK Government, he said: “I think it's good the case has gone to court because I think it's better to have legal certainty, so we all know the base on which we're operating.

"All the court is going to be able to rule, if it does rule in favour, is that there could or can be, it's legally permissible to have a referendum." 

Asked if that meant there should be a referendum, he said: “My argument remains the same, which is if I look at what is bearing down on us, the climate crisis, we've got COP just around the corner, we didn't go far enough in Glasgow last year, we've got conflict in Ukraine, we've got an energy security problem and we've got an economic problem in terms of the cost of living crisis we're facing, they would be my priority.”

Sir Keir said he would "go into the next election, making the case for the United Kingdom, not just on a backward look, although there's plenty that we can say that we've done well together, but on the forward look to the challenges that we face over the next few years, next few decades. "

“All of those, I think, will only be faced if we have a strong United Kingdom. That's the powerful argument that I want to make across the whole of the United Kingdom, but I do understand and realize that one of the drivers of independence, one of the drivers for change is the very strong reaction that many people in Scotland have to the Conservative government in Westminster. 

“My job and what I've been doing since I've been leader Labour Party, is to change our party, expose the Tories as unfit to govern and put forward a Labour Party, which has changed, has the answers to the challenges of the future and is in a position to go into government.”

He said there was “no route to that Labour victory in Westminster that doesn't run through Scotland.”

Asked if he really believed that Anas Sarwar could be the next First Minister of Scotland, Sir Keir said: “Yes. I think we can make real progress.” 

Labour had “changed incredibly over the last two and a half years,” he added. 

Responding to the interview, Kirsten Oswald, the SNP's Deputy Westminster leader Kirsten Oswald said: “Was that really a Labour leader speaking because what Keir Starmer said was not only dangerous nonsense, it has already been said by each of the last four Tory Prime Ministers?

“He demonstrated an insulting ignorance of Scotland’s needs by re-stating his support for the failed policies of successive Tory governments like this catastrophic hard Brexit and an increasingly hard-right stance on immigration.

“To arrive in Scotland so entirely ignorant of the issues affecting our country is astounding incompetence for a man whose ambition is to be Britain's Prime Minister. All he managed to do was confirm that if you vote Labour, you get the same failed Tory policies.

“And his denial of Scottish democracy is straight out of the same Tory playbook used by Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak. It is not for any Westminster politician to decide Scotland’s future – it is solely a matter for the people who live here. And the people have already decided that they want another referendum."

Scottish Conservative chairman Craig Hoy said: "Starmer’s limp response on the Union was vintage Labour. 

"It proves they aren’t strong enough to face down the SNP and safeguard Scotland’s important place in the United Kingdom. 

"Their solution to Nicola Sturgeon isn’t to highlight the SNP failures after 15 years of tired government. 

"Instead, Labour appease Sturgeon, whether that’s Gordon Brown’s scheme for more devolution or getting into bed with the nationalists in Scottish councils.

"One thing Starmer did get spot on is that Labour aren’t in tune with the priorities of the electorate. 
"That’s why Anas Sarwar lost seats at last year’s Holyrood election. 

"In Scotland, it’s the Scottish Conservatives who are the real opposition to Nicola Sturgeon."