'I could never have a decent chat with the Greens' - Douglas Ross

That the leader of the Scottish Tories has opted to spend time with me in an enclosed space with no immediate means of egress speaks well of him. I don’t like the Tory party and what they represent and have been more than a little unkind about Mr Ross since he became leader in 2020. He knows this, but if a Tory in Scotland were to start taking it all personally they’d require daily counselling.   

Here’s a thing about the Tories though: they don’t try to be anything they’re not. The SNP/Greens like to portray themselves as leftish, liberal and progressive when – in their attitude to ordinary Scots, especially women – they’re regressive, reactionary and totalitarian. Labour’s policy suite meanwhile, possess magical powers that allows it to change colours on contact with any person in the vicinity.

Curiously, Mr Ross’s upbringing and background is more working-class than just about any other Scottish political leader in the devolved era. He takes me to the tied farm cottage outside Forres where he was born and raised.

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Westminster boundary changes mean that he will be the last MP to represent Moray in its present form. Henceforth, he reverts solely to being the list MSP for Highlands and islands.

“Dad was a farm labourer here and mum was a school cook,” he says. “All I wanted to do was milk cows.” He points out the burn where the cows would crowd round for a drink. “It was a lovely upbringing. I used to show calves at agricultural events and walk them down this road. However, in January 1998 the farmer sold the cows, meaning that my dad was out of a job at the age of 48 with three children and the family were out of our home.  Eventually, dad got a job at the council and we moved to Forres.”

So, what compels a person with this background and these experiences to become a Tory?

“I was always of the view that government should operate much less in people’s lives and let them make their own decisions about how they spend their own money and to allow them to keep more of it in their own pockets. I’ve always been a strong Unionist and it seemed the Conservatives were a good fit. It’s not really about a philosophy or a doctrine; just about following my instincts and knowing what I felt comfortable with.”

I’m not convinced though. Within this framework there seems little compassion for those who, through no fault of their own, must rely on the state and the taxes which they and their families have paid for generations to help them back on their feet.

Douglas Ross and Rishi Sunak (Image: Getty)

He doesn’t disagree and begins to tiptoe towards territory marked ‘Socialism!’ “That is what we should be aspiring to. The state should be there to help people at their most vulnerable.”

He returns to the time when his dad lost his job. “He had to sign on after going for a number of interviews and not getting them. For the first time in my life, I was on free school meals at a time when it was very obvious who was getting them.

“The state helped support us at that time and I’ll never forget that. But I’m also certain we need a strong economy to ensure that support is there, but also with a view to getting them back to work or gaining extra qualifications to broaden their opportunities.

“I worry that as we see more tax rises – not just at the top – it’s affecting people lower down, on £28,500 a year. At that level they’re paying more than elsewhere in the UK. With these new bands that Shona Robison has introduced I worry we have a tax system that doesn’t actually put money back into public services and that people will choose either not to come to Scotland or to move away.”

Later this week, he’ll bring forward a vote call for parliament to demand Michael Matheson quits as an MSP after Holyrood’s corporate body found he’d broken the MSPs’ code of conduct over his rogue £11k iPad bill.

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John Swinney has said he will refuse to support the 27-day ban imposed on Mr Matheson after he’d lied to the press; the public and parliament. Mr Ross is also furious at what he described as a sinister stunt targeting his party colleague Annie Wells, who is a member of the Standards Committee.

“I was genuinely stunned that the First Minister was portraying his friend Michael Matheson as the victim and then turned on one single female Tory.  Having then seen the orchestrated pile-on I was genuinely angry and a bit worried about what would happen with her.

“It was important that we, as a group, walked out of the chamber and into the Garden Lobby with her. I spoke with Annie over the weekend and she’s not looking at social media. It was so calculated. This hinges on a single tweet she sent last November before she knew that it would come before the Standards Committee. When it did, she said nothing more.

SNP members on that committee also felt Michael Matheson should be sanctioned. Presumably, John Swinney is trying to protect his friend from a long ban because his vote is absolutely crucial to him.” I tell him I detect some class-based misogyny at work here. He wouldn’t have dared target someone like Professor Adam Tomkins in such a way if he’d still been an MSP.

We discuss how puzzled we both were at how quickly Humza Yousaf was forced from office, despite Mr Ross having introduced a no-confidence motion in him following the former First Minister’s defenestration of the Bute House Agreement.

“I was genuinely stunned that the First Minister was portraying his friend Michael Matheson as the victim - Douglas Ross

“I gamed the distinct possibility on that Thursday morning that if I called for a no-confidence vote we could very likely be heading for a quick Scottish election. If that was the case, he probably still be First Minister. It just felt to me that they weren’t up for the fight.

“I didn’t take any pleasure in his resignation. I’d had no relationship with Nicola Sturgeon in any way, shape or form. At least Humza exchanged text messages and maintained a line of communication, something I’d never done with Nicola. He also brought all the leaders into Bute House for a climate summit. He did try to work with the other parties.”

He is brutal in his assessment of the Scottish Greens’ contribution to Holyrood. “Look, there are several SNP politicians with whom you could have a drink and I recall being on a Westminster trip to the US as part of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee with Pete Wishart, Anum Qaisar and Alan Brown, all of whom I got on well.

“You couldn’t have that with the Scottish Greens though, and they got worse when they attained ministerial rank. It was impossible to forge any kind of relationship with them. Yet, it’s important to be able to talk to ministers informally about local issues.  

“I’ve spoken to Neil Gray [the Health Secretary] about GP closures in Burghead and Oban and he was very helpful and solicitous. I could never imagine having a conversation like that with Lorna or Patrick where you can approach them in the tearoom behind the chamber and have a decent conversation with them.”

One question always makes Tories fidgety. During the first independence referendum, David Cameron declared that there was no reason why Scotland couldn’t thrive as an independent country.

They can’t be talking up all the glories and attributes of their various constituencies – as Mr Ross does about Moray – and then say they’d struggle if the people voted for independence. Nor, at the start of an election campaign where they’re talking up Scotland in the Union, can they give the Cameron line.

So, did Douglas Ross agree with the former British Prime Minister? Just as Rishi Sunak had done the previous night at Port of Nigg, he changed the subject.

Tomorrow: Douglas Ross on Joanna Cherry, Kate Forbes, the gender debate and Red Card! Red Card!